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Guidelines to Wandering the Sietch
|We would like to wish all of our new members the warmest of welcomes to jacurutu.com|
This Welcome Message is designed to help you orientate yourself to the forum and to provide some handy links for your further interest.
First of all, please post your introductory thread in the INTRODUCE YOURSELF forum. This allows all members to "welcome" you, comment on your initial posts (ie, what brought you here & how, what your personal "Dune" story is) and becomes "Your Thread" ....
The forum is divided into several main fora, each containing their own topics, as outlined in the BOARD INDEX. Whatever your interest, there will hopefully be something there for you.
Please SEARCH for existing topics before starting a new one. Don't be afraid to post in an old topic (see also the TOPICS LIST).
Check out the READING GROUP. Freakzilla has written summaries of all the chapters. Please feel free to comment or ask questions.
Alternatively, if you are unsure about where to post, or if the answer you seek isn't there, visit our GENERAL DUNE DISCUSSION forum and ask your question(s) there or to leave us feedback and SUGGESTIONS.
If you want to learn how to format your posts, insert images or youtube clips, or do some other cool stuff, then our TEST FORUM is the place to go.
If you are unsure about how to make an avatar, how to change your timezone or any of the forum technical issues, take a look at the FAQ page to familiarize yourself.
Then, take a look at our RULES. It is important that you take the time to read through it as this governs what members may and may not post.
If your post is more than a few lines, always click "Preview" before "Submit". Read what you are preparing to post. Correct spelling errors.
Strive to construct and create an interesting, visually appealing post, that will be entertaining to read as well as being informative or expressive. We personally do not care how extensive and insightful your Dune knowledge is or is not; you should join the discussion at whatever level you are at. We will tolerate and respond positively to anyone who makes a serious attempt to put up a quality post, regardless of the accuracy of Dune facts or theme.
Also, I recommend you all to post ONLY creative, amusing, interesting, and enlightening comments; save all your tedious boring bullshit for Merritt's Board, your web-blahg or twitterings, letters to the editor of your local newspaper, &etc.
Failure to do so will result in our crysknives in your eye.
The Reading Group Summaries are a labor of my love for Frank Herbert's Dune Chronicles. Before writing them I read Dune, the 1984 movie edition mass market paperback out of an airport bookstore in Shreveport, Louisiana, at age 13. I then got the Ace box set that included up to God Emperor of Dune in a WalMart in Marietta, Georgia. At that time I was caught up with Frank and his Dune saga and passed my time reading the rest of his novels and short stories, along with the other giants in the genre. Then came Heretics of Dune and Chapterhouse: Dune at B. Dalton's and Walden's respectively, of Cumberland Mall in Marietta.
In 1986 Frank died and there were no more Dune books, which I continued to read an an average annualy. There were wars and rumors of wars. Then, the internets came with all you nice people. Many had a lot of the same questions I had about The Grand Shebang but the more interesting thing was how we usually came to the same answers when we discussed them. At the time of writing these summaries I was 37 and the reading was done of all six books at the same time. That is; chapter one of Dune, Dune Messiah, Children of Dune, God Emperor of Dune, Heretics of Dune, Chapterhouse: Dune; chapter two of Dune, Dune Messiah, etc.
Enough of the begats...
Try not to post spoilers for the latter books in the Reading Group, if you have general question or comments on broader topics or ones that may contain spoilers, please post those in the appropriate Dune Discussion Forum. Also, please limit posts to serious discussion about the chapter. It's the only Forum in which I ask you to remain on-topic. Useless comments will be deleted at my discretion. Y'all please point out spelling/gramar mistakes if you notice them, or anything important I've left out. Also, let's please refrain from discussing Steve and Bobo's bad fan-fiction.
We strive to make jacurutu.com the best possible forum experience.
Achlan wasachlan! Welcome, Twice Welcome!
Your water is ours!
|JACURUTU & AFFILIATED RESOURCES|
|SITEMAP||OH PAGES||OH WEBRING|
|■ Achlan, Wasachlan!|
② Introduce Yourself !
③ Test Forum
⑦ Orthodox Dune Conclusion
⑧ 2011 Dune Parody Contest
⑨ Fan Fiction
⑪ The Bene Gesserit
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⑬ The Landsraad and Emperor
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⑰ Religions of Dune
⑱ The Butlerian Jihad
⑲ Dune Media
⑳ The Prequels / Sequels
㉑ General Dune Discussion
㉒ The Dune Encyclopedia
㉔ Other Books by Frank Herbert
㉕ Bad Examples
㉘ Dune Messiah
㉙ Children of Dune
㉚ God Emperor of Dune
㉛ Heretics of Dune
㉜ Chapterhouse: Dune
⑥ Dune Fanon
|■ Discussions & Social Medias|
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(by Hunchback Jack & others│Revised version)
This is a board for all of those that enjoy classic Dune, and DO NOT accept the novels of Brian Herbert & Kevin J. Anderson as Dune. We believe that Frank Herbert's Dune is and should be considered a Classic Masterpiece of American Literature, in the same rank as works of Twain, Hemingway, Pound, Faulkner etc.
Jacurutu is a message board for discussing the original six books of Frank Herbert's Dune series : the Dune Chronicles. We discuss the books, the characters, the themes, and get into more details than you can image. We also discuss other Dune sources, such as the Dune Encyclopedia, Frank Herbert's other books, and topics completely unrelated to Dune.
In addition to our common respect for Frank Herbert's work, we also have a common dissatisfaction with the new Dune novels of Kevin J. Anderson. Among our members, this dissatisfaction ranges from a simple refusal to read the books to intense fury whenever the books are even mentioned. You'll quickly figure out where members lie in that spectrum.
Everyone is welcome to join the discussion. You don't have to know everything about Dune to participate, you just have to like the original Dune Chronicles and want to talk about it. A healthy dislike for the new Dune books is not required, but it is greatly recommended.
Jacurutu was created as a haven for the people cast out from other forums for criticizing the new Dune books.
When the new Dune novels were first published, not everyone was happy with the result, and many said so on many existing Dune forums. As more books were published, the dissatisfaction grew, and the criticism became more pronounced.
Some of these forums, including the defunct official Dune forum, started deleting posts that were too critical, and then started banning members for posting negative comments of the new Dune books (2007).
At Jacurutu, members can vent their frustration about how bad the new books are without fear of censorship or ban from the forum. But, first of all, we strongly encourage all to share their reflections and post positive comments about Frank Herbert's Chronicles and other original works.
It would take many thousands of lines to explain all the ways that the new books do not measure up to the original six books, and the best way to get all the details is to read the forum. But here are the basic objections we have:
⦁ Many of the books that take place before the original series steal elements from later books, introducing them far too early, and spoiling the later books.
⦁ The entire Legends of Dune series portrays the Butlerian Jihad is a way counter to the hints given in the original series.
⦁ The Heroes of Dune books, which take place in-between the books of the original series, contradict the events of the originals, and reduce them to in-universe texts to explain away the contradictions. They also greatly lessen the impact of reading the originals.
⦁ The Dune 7 series, ostensibly the purpose behind all these new books, was a meandering mess of plot lines that went nowhere, flat characters that did nothing, and a deus ex machina ending that resolved nothing. It was an outrage and an embarassment.
There has been a long history of animosity between the authors of the new dune series and their detractors. This is partly due to the way that the Dune books have been presented to Dune fans, and partly due to the actions of the authors themselves. On our part, we feel a great deal of anger toward Kevin J. Anderson in particular, for the following reasons:
⦁ Slander. Soon after disgruntled Dune fans started pointing out inconsistencies between the new Dune books and the originals, KJA was quoted in interviews as referring to these fans as "Talifans". We object to being associated with terrorists.
⦁ Arrogance. Not the attitude of someone humbled by the opportunity to work in the Dune universe.
⦁ Graft. KJA SF, which gives incentive to fans to game the review systems of amazon and other sites, by writing favourable reviews.
WHO WE ARE AND WHAT WE STAND FOR
That's how I wrote the novel, wanting you to participate with the best of your own imagination. I did not aim for the lowest common denominator and 'write down" to anyone. You and I have a compact and my responsibility is to entertain you as richly as possible, always giving you as much extra as I can. I assume you are intelligent and will enlist your own imagination. You'll see that when you read the Dune excerpt and the other stories in this collection.
~Frank Herbert, Intro to Eye
Looking back on it, I realize I did the right thing instinctively. You don't write for success. That takes part of your attention away from the writing. If you're really doing it, that's all you're doing: writing. There's an unwritten compact between you and the reader. If someone enters a bookstore and sets down hard earned money (energy) for your book, you owe that person some entertainment and as much more as you can give. That was really my intention all along.
~Frank Herbert, Intro to Heretics of Dune
First, a little about me. I first read Dune at age thirteen in 1984, just before the David Lynch movie hit the big screen, and was immediately hooked. I caught up with the series soon afterwards and read Heretics of Dune and Chapterhouse: Dune as they were published. Then I read everything else FH wrote that I could find. I even read the entire Dune Encyclopedia complied by Dr. Willis McNelly. I was devastated when I learned of my new favorite author's death. Since then I've read the series roughly once a year,give or take.
Years later came the internet and discussion forums. I lurked at Dreamers of Dune for about a year, afraid to expose my ignorance, but after building up the courage to chance participating in the discussion I found that I was gaining credibility in knowledge of the Dune series and became an active member. DoD eventually died and since then I've been a fixture in whatever Dune forum(s) was the most active, sometimes in multiple forums. Sometimes as a member, sometimes as moderator or administrator.
Eventually in 1999 I was thrilled to read news that Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson were planning to continue the series. I eagerly bought and read the new Dune books and was sorely disappointed to say the least. I could have tolerated the abysmal writing if the authors had bothered to pretend they understood Frank Herbert's books and remained consistent with his themes and details. I wouldn't be surprised if I found out the new authors haven't even read the originals.
When the Herbert estate opened a Dune Novels bulletin board in 2006, I immediately joined and voiced my disdain, for which I was immediately banned. I emailed the administrator, Frank Herbert's grandson Byron Merritt, and upon apologizing for personally insulting the authors and promising to refrain from doing it again was allowed to rejoin the forum. There I proceeded to make 5,691 posts before eventually being banned again and am still, years after being banned, the leading poster there.
I wasn't the only one banned for voicing their negative opinions of the new books, not by far. Most of the knowledgeable people I'd come to know in the Dune fan community felt the same way I did and the Dunenovels standard operating procedure for dealing with negative comments is to ban the member. Eventually this lead to only the most mindless discussion there and I saw an opportunity for a new Dune fan forum where members would not be censored. So I started Jacurutu, named after the Cast Out in Children of Dune. This leads to...
First of all, this is not an anti-KJA/BH forum. This is a FH's Dune fan forum.
However, current events in the world of Dune have drawn fire towards the new authors for what many fans consider raping and milking FH's legacy for profit, and that is the topic du jour. If I had my way, we'd only be discussing FH's works but one of the ideas this forum was founded on was to let the discussion take it's own course without censorship. So that is the way it goes.
Contrary to what some might say, we are not against the continuation of the Dune series in any medium. We are against BADLY continuing Dune in any medium. The Herberts have hired a notorious hack to bring them a steady paycheck with a total lack of respect for the deep and serious ideas and themes present in FH's legacy and have turned it into a McDune franchise. It's a shame that none of the many qualified, GOOD authors have not had a chance to do FH's legacy justice. At least, if they aren't going to give a real author a shot, they should stop defiling Dune with the pulp space opera crap they've been churning out.
Well, that's the gist of it.
I exist only to serve,
OH LITERARY CANON
|The earliest fans did not have a dogmatically defined canon of continuity until KJA and his false "new canon" appeared. Precisely because of the various opinions on this matter, the OH Community (Ορθόδοξη Κοινότητα) defined what belonged to the canon of Dune continuity. |
The word canon comes from the Greek κανών for "a straight rod" or "a carpenter's rule". It denoted a measuring tool and came to mean a "standard". It is in this sense that it used by Herbertarians. A canon is an accepted list of books which are regarded as authentic, genuine and authoritative sources.
The concept of canonicity is almost entirely an invention of fandom. The writers will ignore, include, or change whatever facts they damned well like. This is not to say that the writers totally lack a sense of continuity, but it is a much weaker concept than "canonicity" as presented by fan communities.
|The first infallible and effectually promulgated OH pronouncement on the canon was that defined by Talos Aquinas (aka Arrakeen SandChigger ) :|
“Only what Frank Herbert wrote & published [in US] and did not later contradict –retcon– is [Proto]canon.”
— Talos Aquinas [Summa Contra Hæreticos]
|Protocanonical books (πρωτοκανονικών from "protos", "first") are the core part of the Dune continuity. OH scholars use sometimes the terms homologoumena and antilegomena to delineate between those books which were universally accepted, and those there were disputes. In both cases, the protocanonical texts are valued equally as the word of Frank Herbert – we just acknowledge that some texts were more readily accepted than others, for a variety of reasons. |
❒ Textus Receptus or Homologoumena (ὁμολογούμενα "universally acknowledged writings", "accepted and undisputed works", "writings that were generally acknowledged") are those texts which have always been considered canonical by all Dune fans: in other words, the Authentic Six that were published in North America between 1965 and 1985.
|❒ Vetus Herbertiana & Textus Parallelus, also called Antilegomena (ἀντιλεγόμενα) or Amphiballomena books ("contested, contradicted, disputed writings", "works that were doubted in certain parts of the community") refers to certain editions & manuscripts whose value is disputed: |
⦁ serializations (1963-1981),
⦁ ARC copies,
⦁ deleted scenes & chapters (Fullerton manuscripts 1961-1981 ; 2005 Road to Dune).
The term "disputed" should therefore not be misunderstood to mean "false" or "corrupt"; rather, there was disagreement in the fandom on whether or not the respective texts deserved canonical status.
In Orthodox Community, Paracanon (παράκανονικών ; from "pará", “beside; next to, near, from”) means that these texts are part of the OH canon – integrated with the rest of the corpus – but has secondary authority. Other terms with similar meanings include "semi-canonical" and "quasi-canonical".
❒ Deuterocanon (δευτεροκανονικών "belonging to the second canon" ; from "deuteros","second",) is a term used to describe certain editions & materials which some fans considered to be canonic while others disagreed. These sources are not preserved in the first Canon, but included in the FH's continuity :
⦁ Pictorial stories,
⦁ Dune Opera, Dune screenplay, Dune Tarot.
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